Immigration and the Economy

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Immigration and the Economy

Post by kayleighBartlett on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:33 pm

Immigration in the U.S. is a heated topic of discussion in which most of the participants are without important information. According to an analysis by the Washington Office on Latin America, a human rights group, “There were 463 deaths in the past fiscal year” of immigrants trying to make the perilous journey across the U.S. Mexican border. However most people still view immigrants, particularly from Mexico, as leaches sucking money and jobs from the U.S. Economy. The reality however is that these leaches are people, just like every U.S. citizen, who share the dream of making a life for themselves and their families in America. And although there is much debate as to how they actually affect the U.S. by coming here, Immigrants from Mexico and Latin America actually not only do not hurt the U.S. economy but contribute to its economic growth. As discussed by Adam Davidson in his article, Debunking the Myth of the Job-Stealing Immigrant, “Immigrants don’t just increase the supply of labor, though; they simultaneously increase demand for it…Immigrants increase the size of the overall population, which means they increase the size of the economy”. So not only do Immigrants want to take part in the same search for a life as American’s do, but they help the economy grow so that we can live our American Dream.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by AdamMkIV on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:50 pm

Realistically, you haven't really defended immigration per say overall. You've only focused on the main concept of illegal immigrants and the statistics involving those that try to cross the border (illegally). An individual who enters the country by the proper avenues to contribute to our economy is highly encouraged. Everyone here was once an immigrant to the country (save for native americans), but why would statistics in illegal immigrants mater? Realistically, illegal immigrants make up 11.3 million (as per P.E.W research statistics and census' taken from 1993-2015). That number of individuals will have an effect on income and the economy. To put this figure in perspective, thats 5.1% of the national work force which is going into illegal hands.
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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by mhamel on Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:52 pm

So are you for immigrants or agents them? You say stuff like they are leaches but you also say that they help the economy grow?

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by AdamMkIV on Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:40 pm

mhamel wrote:So are you for immigrants or agents them? You say stuff like they are leaches but you also say that they help the economy grow?


My point is that I am for immigration however not encouraging any notion towards the addressing of illegal immigration. By the way, clever meme. True I didn't specify well enough, so I shall elaborate. Immigration is a nessesary for our country to develop, as it does bring new concepts. However, the issue is that illegal immigrants do not matter. They don't belong in the country in the first place and shouldn't have any care provided. I was trying to say that the topic at hand should remain on proper immigration, not pity parties for those that try/die entering our border wrongly.
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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by mhamel on Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:55 pm

Thank you! Well the quote and the meme was meant for the author and you do have some legitimate points about the illegal immigrants and i believe that it is a problem that should be taken seriously but you have to think about where their coming from too. If they are willing to work the jobs no one wants is there really a harm. The true harm is when the US government makes it easy for them to come over illegally and let them stay and take jobs people actually want.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by edwarddfontaine on Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:55 am

One might also take into consideration that illegal immigrants are often exploited by their "employers" because they are usually paid lower wages by employers than if they were legal citizens. This does not help the economy because standard U.S. citizens are not getting paid and if these immigrants leave with what little money they do earn all that revenue gets transferred out of the U.S. and back where they came from. Plus, because many employers know they can get away with it they will generally prefer hiring an illegal over a citizen. As a comment from the Federation for American immigration reform states it " they are often welcomed by U.S. employers who are able to hire them for wages lower than they would have to pay to hire U.S. workers." This means fewer jobs for Americans and thus an ultimately weaker economy.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by mhamel on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:18 pm

But you have to think of the service their doing for the economy... They are providing services that would other wise be left empty. Such as cleaning the floors in a office or taking care kids.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by edwarddfontaine on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:53 pm

I do not think these areas would be left empty. I for example am a dishwasher and make minimum wage yet I am happy I even got that job in the first place. The current state of the economy demands Americans to work yet we seem to have limited capacity in that area. Then we have illegals taking up that sparse capacity simply because they are willing to do the same work for lower pay. Resulting in mid to lower class Americans left out of work not being productive members of society. The cash flow slows down: fewer people are buying commodities do to lack of income and businesses ultimately lose money because fewer people are buying their products. The illegals either stay to take what money they can and leave taking that income back to their place of origin or they spend what little money they earn on their needs because they can not afford anything else. The end result is a slower weaker economy.

Now if these immigrants actually made minimum wage and received the same workers rights as a standard citizen they would actually contribute to the economy a lot more. They would also not receive special consideration from employers because they can be exploited and regular American citizens would stand a greater chance in an already competitive job market.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by AdamMkIV on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:43 pm

There is also another consideration. How many illegal families come here with the intention of sending a large percent of their money back to their respective country? Unfortunately this occurs consistently, and of the 11.7 million (federal census and USA Today census close 2014) illegals in this country have a major effect on our economy. If every one of them sent out a dollar a day to their respective country, start thinking about how the economy will begin to be hit.
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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by Admin on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:04 pm

AdamMkIV wrote:There is also another consideration. How many illegal families come here with the intention of sending a large percent of their money back to their respective country? Unfortunately this occurs consistently, and of the 11.7 million (federal census and USA Today census close 2014) illegals in this country have a major effect on our economy. If every one of them sent out a dollar a day to their respective country, start thinking about how the economy will begin to be hit.

Food for thought: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/89/pg89-images.html

If the "economy" has been shifted across borders (consumption as well as production), what does it mean to send money back home, so to speak?

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by kayleighBartlett on Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:50 pm

In response to several of the comments posted under my original Post I would like to make it clear that my personal views on Immigration are irreverent to my argument. My argument is based off of my research and experts in the fields of economics and immigration and their research. As for concerns about my original post I would like to offer some further information to back up my argument that immigrants benefit the U.S. economy. I would also like to first specify that I am focusing on illegal immigrants. As of 2012 there were an estimated 11.7 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. or 3.7 percent of the U.S. population. 20 percent of these immigrants live below the poverty line as compared to the 16 percent of native born American who do. while these are similar percentages illegal immigrants receive very little to no government benefits such as unemployment or social security. And although these immigrants make up 16 percent of the U.S. workforce they do so while living in fear of unsafe working environment and no hope of their employers being held responsible for their safety and reasonable pay because of fear of deportation. In addition to these conditions 75 percent of illegal immigrants pay into social security as well as paying U.S. income taxes and sales taxes. However despite the fact that they undoubtedly contribute to the U.S. economy they will never receive any social security benefits or tax returns. So the question here is not whether or not I support immigration but rather what the implications of immigration are on the economy and how the U.S. and its economic policies affect humans living in their country.

The article I used to get this information is: Facts about Immigration and the U.S. Economy by Daniel Costa, David Cooper, and Heidi Shierholz, on the website for Economic Policy Institute.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by AdamMkIV on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:23 pm

I'd like to contribute a much darker path for consideration, rather than the thought of what the illegals contribute. Consider what would happen for economic purposes when 11.7 million illegals simply vanish from our country. What does this allow? Assuming 7.8 million are working (if we wish to jump to 10 we can, I will not assume all illegals are working), think of how many jobs this potentially opens up. In addition, any company that originally hired them would be put under scrutiny and faced with the potential fining or damages assessment. True, some in higher positions would loose their job and the result being a bit of a chaotic state within these various companies. However, there would be an immediate influx of job openings needed to be filled.

Even more amazing would be the need for fast product development, not enough time to contact suppliers in China or India to create such things. The result would allow more American products created at home with more American jobs. Mind you, this is only based on the deportation of illegals, not the legal immigrants who own houses, jobs, and contribute like the rest of society.

There are even other considerations, those that house illegals and choose to spend their own money in housing and feeding them. A fine could be levied upon them as well, knowing they were doing something illegal resulting in an influx of federal payments and debt collection to ensure a balance to the economy. There would be a powerful economic loss (Briefly) on the cost to deport all of the illegals, but there is another dark path. Being they dont belong in the country either, their assets could be liquidated and taken by the government, to and including bank accounts to ensure a better off balance.

This is a dark theory and it is not very sympathetic, however it would indeed offset the economic loss and create a net gain in fact over those that are deported.
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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by Alexandria Viszolay on Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:47 pm

I agree with your affirmative stance on the resolution, but need clarification about the status of immigrants. Did these immigrants become registered American citizens? Although they help the economy, they are not participating with the American economic systems, such as taxation, and therefore should not be within the work force - unfair to those paying taxes. I believe all immigrants need to be naturalized - I understand this is not an easy feet to accomplish, but the necessity is immense.

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by Admin on Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:16 pm

Hi all,
One important angle I think this conversation is still missing is not just the economic contribution or consumption of immigrants, but the economic impetus for their immigration. What, economically speaking, drives someone to leave their home country (often moving through danger and living in relative alienation) to settle somewhere foreign? Also: sources are your friends....

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Re: Immigration and the Economy

Post by edwarddfontaine on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:30 pm

I think that the original posters concept does support the idea that immigrants do help the economy has some reality. The concept in question is basically a quantity over quality idea. Essentially there are so many immigrants participating in the U.S. economy that they ultimately help the economy. However this concept of their contribution hides the reality that if these jobs were filled with standard citizens the economy would be much more stable and better off. As one commentator previously stated most immigrants come here with the intention of moving back. If these job positions were filled by citizens however they would be less likely to leave and continue to support the economy. Also because these citizens would be paid reasonably they would be, in theory, more likely to spend money and increase cash-flow meaning a stronger economy.
As to why illegals come to the U.S. in the first place. It is because the current economy of Mexico is very poor. The people that do have money are aristocrats whom also have their hand in the Mexican government. The rest of the people are subject to little opportunity to advance themselves socially or economically. Thus their only option is to migrate somewhere where they can receive that opportunity. A natural migration that the U.S. government is trying to stop because of racial discrimination and fear that such an influx of people would negatively effect the economy.
In reality this influx only hurts the economy if all these people are denied the rights they deserve and the rights that the U.S. government is currently withholding from them unconstitutionally. The U.S. is supposed to be a place of "equal opportunity for all" and yet these immigrants are denied that opportunity and exploited by opportunistic business owners looking to increase their position through what is essentially the equivalence of enslavement. Our government continues to think the problem is the immigrants when in reality it is our treatment of them. The crossing of the border would not be so treacherous if the border was free to cross with little interference.

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